Oval Office Conversation 639-30
December 21, 1971
6:07 PM—6:59 PM
[Ehrlichman and Haldeman enter at approximately 6:09 PM].

Participants: Richard M. Nixon, John N. Mitchell
John D. Ehrlichman & H.R. (Bob) Haldeman

A NOTE ON THIS RECORDING AND TRANSCRIPT: There appears to be a myth associated with the White House tapes that everything taped is easily discernible. With the exception of Nixon's phone conversations that are generally very clear, the remaining recordings are less than desirable. These recordings were not studio quality, and they were never intended for public consumption.

The initial problem with the Nixon tapes is the analog technology standards of 1971. Hence, these recordings are not as clear as the digital recording technology of the present day. Secondly, since these were secret recordings — sensitive, omni-directional microphones were hidden in obscure locations. These mikes picked up every sound, including every page turn, every tap on the desk, every cough and all other extraneous noises. This makes understanding portions of the conversation difficult because the background noise often obscures the dialogue.

Contributing the to a clarity problem is the lack of ability in understanding President Nixon. This occurs because the President's desk did not have its own microphone. All comments by Nixon are coming through mikes placed at a distance — making his comments more difficult to understand. Recordings from the Executive Office Building are worse due to the added problem of a voice activation system. Because of the very nature of this system, the machinery omits portions of words and, in some cases, entire words.

The original recording speed of these tapes poses an additional problem. These conversations were recorded on reel-to-reel tape decks operating at a speed of 15/16 ips (inches per second). By comparison, home reel-to-reel recordings are (at best) 7 1/2 ips, broadcast quality at 15 ips and recording studio quality at 30 ips. The original tape speed contributes to fidelity loss and a higher noise to signal ratio.

Lastly, during the version released by the National Archives, several comments dealing with national security were omitted and replaced with a 1 kHz tone. These places are noted in the accompanying transcript by the following: [NATIONAL SECURITY DELETION 1000 Hz TONE].

In preparation for this on-line release, Mountain State University's Nixon Era Center digitized and then enhanced the original recording by adjusting various frequency ranges. This allowed the Center to produce a working recording. There is one word of caution: the final product is still not studio quality and could never be, as the original recording lacks the necessary fidelity. Due to audio file compression for the streaming of this tape, the on-line version exhibits further quality degradation.

The accompanying transcript was prepared by a combination of efforts. Those involved the transcription of this project include Len Colodny, author of Silent Coup: The Removal of a President; Jim Owston of the Nixon Era Center; and James Rosen, John Mitchell biographer and Fox News White House Correspondent. The Nixon Era Center wishes to extend special thanks to Mr. Rosen for his assistance on this project.

Listen to this Oval Office recording while reading the transcript. You will need to download Real Player to hear the audio. To continue reading the transcript while you listen to the tape, please minimize Real Player on your computer screen.

The Nixon Era Center also provides excerpts from key portions of the dialogue that you can access without listening to the entire recording. They include the following:

1. Nixon first learns about the spy ring
2. John Ehrlichman describes the trail from Jack Anderson to Radford and Welander
3. Documents were routed to the Joint Chiefs for 13 months
4. Ehrlichman lists the types of documents stolen by Yeoman Radford
5. Mitchell discusses how to end the spy ring and that it needed to be covered up
6. Mitchell equates the stealing to robbing the President's desk
7. Nixon states that this is "a federal offense of the highest order"

The conversation begins with President Nixon and Attorney General John Mitchell. Nixon had just returned from a trip to Bermuda where he met with British Prime Minister Edward Heath. This was the second in a series of meetings Nixon conducted with European allies. He had previously met with French President Georges Pompidou in the Azores on December 12 and would meet with German Chancellor Willy Brandt at Key Biscayne on December 28. The initial conversation between Nixon and Mitchell reference these meetings and Nixon's vacation.

NIXON:

How are you?

MITCHELL:

It looks like you got a little sun

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE] went skiing

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

Weather alright?

NIXON:

Beautiful, cool, very cool something like the end of summer.

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Cooperation with the French [INAUDIBLE] and attempt to cooperate with the Germans [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

He agreed?

NIXON:

Agreed, the meetings, they were a dang good [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

I believe it.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

I believe that it will be received well here and I think puts to rest a lot of the [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

of our allies and so forth [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Yes [INAUDIBLE] A lot of work. Hell of a way to spend your vacation [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE]

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

NIXON:

You'll be here, Friday?

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Loud and clear.

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE] I talked to the Chief Justice.

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] tomorrow?

HALDEMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] Walter Johnson is going to be there representing the union side.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] hard worker getting Rehnquist trained [INAUDIBLE]

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

Is this 11 or 11:30?

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

I see that you [INAUDIBLE] Because I train 'em all and you steal 'em. [INAUDIBLE ]

NIXON:

No, he's a Vice President of ABC [INAUDIBLE] (Possibly a discussion of the TV Special featuring Julie Nixon Eisenhower)

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] Pull my hair out.

MITCHELL:

Don't worry Mr. President, I'm not about to [INAUDIBLE]

LAUGHS

NIXON:

John, [INAUDIBLE] security deal to go five hours at one crack [GRUNT]

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE] Did you really burn the burn bag?

NIXON:

The answer, to be honest with you is

MITCHELL:

Uh huh.

[NATIONAL SECURITY DELETION 1000 Hz TONE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] use the practice that their following me

UNKNOWN:

Oh come on.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] All I need to do is to study the son-of-a-bitch's speech [INAUDIBLE] is stupid. [INAUDIBLE] Done their way. Then, then—wouldn't that be better than some [INAUDIBLE]

HALDEMAN:

Well I see what your saying.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] And then—so, anyhow, what were the findings that they saw?

CLICK THE MICROPHONE and hear an audio excerpt where Nixon first learns about the spy ring. :43.

EHRLICHMAN:

Well we have a payload of incriminatory and uh,

NIXON:

Good.

EHRLICHMAN:

It took a funny bounce.

NIXON:

Good, but I mean [INAUDIBLE] found out [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes, we found more than we thought we would.

NIXON:

Good.

EHRLICHMAN:

Jack Anderson ran columns actually four of them now including today

NIXON:

Uh-hum.

EHRLICHMAN:

Uh, Excerpts of top-secret documents,

MITCHELL:

Criminal actions,

EHRLICHMAN:

Uh, and uh they're involved in CIA back channels [INAUDIBLE] notebooks of WSAG meetings [INAUDIBLE] and so on and so forth. [INAUDIBLE] And the first hour we were aware that we had Krough and Young busy. And through Dave Young, used to be Henry's right hand; he's now working for us on these special projects.

NIXON:

He's done a really superb job.

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes.

MITCHELL:

Mmm-hmm

EHRLICHMAN:

First rate job.

MITCHELL:

Quite mature for a young fellow.

EHRLICHMAN:

Uh, yes and

NIXON:

What did you say?

MITCHELL:

Quite mature for a young fellow.

EHRLICHMAN:

First of all—

NIXON:

One of these days we'll talk about old.

HALDEMAN:

He has got his hair?

MITCHELL:

Hey!

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

[LAUGHS]

MITCHELL:

That's a great place to train 'em.

CLICK THE MICROPHONE and hear an audio excerpt where John Ehrlichman describes the trail that led from Jack Anderson to Yeoman Radford and Admiral Welander. 2:17.

EHRLICHMAN:

Uh, it's important to understand how they found this guy. They took the documents that Anderson had accepted

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

EHRLICHMAN:

And by figuring out the destination of these documents, they were able to pin point, that there was really only one place in the whole Federal Government where all those documents were available,

NIXON:

That's here.

EHRLICHMAN:

And that was here in the Joint Chiefs of Staff Liaison Office in the National Security Council, and

NIXON:

Jesus Christ!

EHRLICHMAN:

There are only two men in that office, one the Admiral, and one the yeoman. So they began interviewing both of them, and they polygraphed both of them. And the yeoman obviously is the guy. He knew Jack Anderson; he had dinner with Jack Anderson the previous Sunday. His wife and Jack Anderson's wife were Mormons, and friends, and were doing things together and so on and so forth. He had been stationed in India for two years, so this is probably about the India/Pakistan thing. So there was motive, opportunity, and access — the whole thing.

NIXON:

How in the name of God do we have a yeoman having access to documents of that kind?

EHRLICHMAN:

Well, he's the key man. He is the, he's the fellow that, that types all the memcons, the memoranda, the conversations, who followed through [INAUDIBLE]

HALDEMAN:

Everybody has—

MITCHELL:

He's traveled with Henry.

EHRLICHMAN:

He's traveled with Haig.

MITCHELL:

Did he go to China?

EHRLICHMAN:

No, but he went to Indonesia with uh Henry and uh Vietnam with Haig. And in all Haig's dealings he's been smart and that kind of thing. So he's been right at the,

NIXON:

He's been right at the precipice.

EHRLICHMAN:

Thank you. Now, he works for this Admiral Welander, who is the Joint Chiefs of Staff liaison man. Before him there was a captain, a Navy captain in the office. [INAUDIBLE] This followed what the polygraphs were asked among [INAUDIBLE]

HALDEMAN:

Did he know his polygraph was recorded?

EHRLICHMAN:

Oh yes, yes indeed. And he has refused to admit to turning the documents over to Anderson but he has spilled something else. That he's had access so on and so forth.

NIXON:

All the way through?

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes. He realizes he may be the only man in the whole government to have access to all of these documents.

NIXON:

Does he understand the circumstances?

EHRLICHMAN:

He said, "obviously a good tight circumstantial case, I'll answer any questions which you have."

NIXON:

We must be cautious—very, very cautious.

EHRLICHMAN:

We are.

NIXON:

Right.

EHRLICHMAN:

We are, we are [INAUDIBLE] but in the course of the polygraph, he was asked whether or not he had ever stolen documents and so—

NIXON:

The fact is, he leaks.

EHRLICHMAN:

Sure, he had to. He's given them to Anderson

MITCHELL:

Taken another [INAUDIBLE] these security risks [INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] big blub on the polygraph. So then they double back. And the technique is assembling now.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] Very curious about seeing how you fellows think whoever runs the polygraph must be a smart fellow.

EHRLICHMAN:

He's an expert and he's

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] how old is the guy [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] He's schooled, he's trained, he spends his whole life thinking this—reading the, the character reactions of the—

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] Who prepared the questions? [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

Well, this, this. He gets immersed in the subject matter, however, he can get at it.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] Is he a lawyer?

EHRLICHMAN:

No, but, uh he's the investigator and [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] lawyer [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

No [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] government lawyers [INAUDIBLE] polygraphs [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

The,

NIXON:

Go ahead.

CLICK THE MICROPHONE and hear an audio excerpt where Nixon is told that the spy ring has existed for 13 months and that Yeoman Radford had repeatedly stolen documents which were then routed to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. 1:18

EHRLICHMAN:

The uh, the interrogator then doubles back, says he gets a bad reading from the polygraph operator. "What other documents?" The guy broke down and cried. Then he says, "I can't answer that question without permission of Admiral Welander." So Dave Young called me, uh called him. And he talked to this fellow: "I want you to tell him everything he knows."

NIXON:

Who the Admiral?

EHRLICHMAN:

Yeah.

NIXON:

Probably a good guy.

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE]. So then it all came out. He has under the expressed arrangement with Captain Robinson and under the implied approval of his supervisor, the Admiral, he has systematically stolen documents out of Henry's briefcase, Haig's briefcase, people's desks—anyplace and everyplace in the NSC apparatus that he could get his hands on—and has duplicated and turned them over to the Joint Chiefs through his boss. This has been going on now for about thirteen months.

NIXON:

Don't expect anything out of these crackers.

MITCHELL:

That's — its a pretty long time itself!

NIXON:

Is Henry aware of this?

EHRLICHMAN:

I'm sure not.

NIXON:

Is Haig aware of this?

EHRLICHMAN:

I don't know. I suspect Haig may be aware, by some kind of back-channel basis. Because after this came out and it was reduced to writing by the interrogator, uh Young was advised by the interrogator that he was having some trouble with his superiors, and that he was going to have to excise his report to leave that material out. We have to—

NIXON:

Who did he lean on?

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] Oh no, Stewart, the interrogator, the investigator

NIXON:

Yeah

EHRLICHMAN:

over at the Pentagon submitted

MITCHELL:

DOD security officer.

EHRLICHMAN:

And we have an unexpurgated version of the report. So, we do have the black binder, signed by the interrogator. But, you ask if Haig knows; I don't know if Haig knows. But, uh if this thing runs true to form, undoubtedly, his radar has picked this up by now. But this guy admits to taking and duplicating and turning over to the Joint Chiefs' liaison man not only uh—

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] What?

EHRLICHMAN:

Well, I'd have to read you the list.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] is this. Does Henry know the inside political dope?

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

NIXON:

For thirteen months.

CLICK THE MICROPHONE and hear an audio excerpt where John Ehrlichman lists the types of documents stolen by Yeoman Radford. :10.

EHRLICHMAN:

For thirteen months. Contingency plans, political agreements, troop movements, behind-the-scenes topics, security conferences [INAUDIBLE] behind-the scenes [INAUDIBLE], foreign governments, et cetera. [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

I'll be damned.

EHRLICHMAN:

We, we had discovered a [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Before we left? You were aware of this [INAUDIBLE]?

EHRLICHMAN:

It would have been Thursday or Friday.

NIXON:

Yeah.

EHRLICHMAN:

And I think this came up Friday.

NIXON:

I thought that we were going on Thursday.

EHRLICHMAN:

Well this is, see this is Tuesday

NIXON:

Oh I'm sorry, you were working all this week [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

Well, we were working all this week [INAUDIBLE].

NIXON:

Go ahead.

EHRLICHMAN:

Now, now, as soon as Young advised me of this, I stopped the Defense Department interrogation and sent Dave over to talk to John, and uh he and I talked today. It was his feeling that you ought to know about this before we get any further in this case at. We had been working on this with the idea that perhaps they can link him to Anderson, Jack Anderson—that had been our original goal. Then it developed, of course, that this guy, this, this, this sailor was the veritable storehouse of information of all kinds and that he reads and retains everything that comes through. He testified here that he knew about Henry's secret negotiations with the North Vietnamese.

NIXON:

Oh!

EHRLICHMAN:

And uh, uh it came up in the relevant response to the question. Now, this guy, obviously, could be court-martialed or he is given immunity and the whistle in his hands, or something to that. But, we approached him, he's been under terrific pressure. He put in for a transfer out of here, which was denied, because he was a key man.

NIXON:

Now, key to whom?

EHRLICHMAN:

He was obviously calm [INAUDIBLE] interrogated

NIXON:

the military. [INAUDIBLE]

HALDEMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] The polygraph indicated he was lying when he says he did not give the stuff to Anderson

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] Oh yes, oh yes. He did.

HALDEMAN:

[INAUDIBLE]

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE] However, however much he attempts to, and that's the [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

He, he has enough to [INAUDIBLE] NSA

[NATIONAL SECURITY DELETION 1000 Hz TONE]

NIXON:

Have you talked to Helms about this? Talked to Henry about this?

MITCHELL:

Helms neglected to see me [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] Henry [INAUDIBLE] They know [INAUDIBLE] Helms.

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] I'm sure not. [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] So Haig seems to be the only one who hasn't expressed his concern to you at all?

EHRLICHMAN:

Oh yes, in fact Haig is the one that called me up when the first Anderson column came up. He said, "You guys are going to have to handle this, we're swamped." And then he turned the thing over to me.

HALDEMAN:

Henry's aware of what Krogh is up to, 'cause they've talked.

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes.

NIXON:

And has Henry [INAUDIBLE] since before? [INAUDIBLE]

HALDEMAN:

Where would do you have to go to—

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] You may straighten him out— there's a hole inside the second floor, right.

HALDEMAN:

Right, on this thing he is—even if you did straighten him out, this thing is [INAUDIBLE] Anderson [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

I told Henry that his WSAG meetings were compromised. I told him that we thought we knew.

HALDEMAN:

Does this yeoman sit in on WSAG meetings?

EHRLICHMAN:

No, he didn't have to. Because the Chiefs have got a guy sitting at the WSAG meeting taking verbatim notes on what everybody says, listening

MITCHELL:

Ton of material here.

EHRLICHMAN:

Its all written up and he has access to and handles just everything from State, Pentagon, NSC, every place. And uh he has Xeroxed it and turned over to Anderson. There's no question. Now, the way we started off on Anderson's trail. We were slowed down by the fact that this guy was obviously very hot. Then we got this Joint Chief's angle and so we shut the whole thing down. This guy is obviously cooperative. We've had him standing by at home for further interrogation.

NIXON:

We bug him?

EHRLICHMAN:

No, I don't think we have him tapped. Do we have him tapped?

MITCHELL:

No we don't.

EHRLICHMAN:

We don't have him tapped.

HALDEMAN:

Could we put him under some kind of arrest?

EHRLICHMAN:

Well we could

MITCHELL:

We could, but that's not, not—

EHRLICHMAN:

This is a little bit like trying to catch a skunk. And you get some on you if you don't have the talent.

NIXON:

That's right. Exactly right.

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] Uh, but the, the Joint Chiefs' liaison office is over here in EOB, and it's right in the NSC complex. It's pretty nice, it's this Captain Robinson, who, Dave got to know, on the first day Dave came to work, said: "Now Dave we're really your eyes and ears of the Pentagon. You can trust me entirely. Uh, my job is to get you fellows information out of the Pentagon." It turned out to be, in effect, a reverse agent—working for the Pentagon inside here. That, that office, it seems to me uh possibly poses a clear and present danger to the, the—such security as it might exist at the NSC. John has suggestions as to how to proceed in this that I think are very sound and I'll leave him to explain them. [INAUDIBLE]

CLICK THE MICROPHONE and hear an audio excerpt where John Mitchell suggests that they end the spy ring by directly confronting Joint Chief's chair Tom Moorer and to then cover up its existence. 2:23

MITCHELL:

Well, Mr. President, I'd like to comment that this thing goes right into the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Undoubtedly, they'd known about it, how its participated in, ill gotten gains they received. First thing you're—

NIXON:

I mean, prosecuting is a possibility for the Joint Chiefs, Now, I'll have to think about it.

MITCHELL:

I agree with you, but we have to take it from there as to what this would lead to if you pursued it by way of prosecuting Moorer. Even a public confrontation, you against the Joint Chiefs aligned on that side directly against you. And the—what has been done has been done. I think that the important thing is to paper this thing over.

NIXON:

Hmmmph!

MITCHELL:

Uh, This way—first of all, get that liaison office the hell out of NSC and put it back at the Pentagon.

NIXON:

Correct.

MITCHELL:

Secondly, to get a security officer into the NSC.

NIXON:

Correct. Well what about Henry Kissinger?

MITCHELL:

Well, I think that whoever goes in there is going to have to ride herd not only on the rest of the staff, but on Henry. It turns out that one of these most important memorandums here that Henry had was lost, and that somebody just handed him another copy. He shouldn't have even had another copy. This came out today [INAUDIBLE]. And with respect to uh the Joint chiefs, you have to get, its in my opinion, this guy Admiral Welander the hell out of there, by way of a signal. That way you can transfer him to Kokoko [sic] or Indiana, or wherever we want to send him, along, of course, with this yeoman. And I think the best thing to do is for me—and we'll leave Laird aside for a moment—but for me to sit down with Tom Moorer, and point out what this scene here that's been going on, and it's the end of the road. The liaison is going back to the Pentagon; if they want to make calls over here. And there's a security quotient going into the NSC, and this ballgame's over with. Now, ah, this would, having exacerbated—discipline this admiral that's been involved in this—I don't know what to do about Robinson, if anything. Where is he off to?

EHRLICHMAN:

He's at sea.

HALDEMAN:

Is he that, that character [INAUDIBLE] briefed us all on Cambodia.

NIXON:

Well [INAUDIBLE]

[NATIONAL SECURITY DELETION 1000 Hz TONE]

NIXON:

The military wouldn't dream of [INAUDIBLE] I don't think the [INAUDIBLE] the Admiral or Robinson knew he was doing this to [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

They knew he knew Jack Anderson.

NIXON:

Who?

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] Both Robinson and Welander knew that he had a social relationship with Jack Anderson.

HALDEMAN:

It's almost as though they meant to do something.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE; question asked] That's what I fear [INAUDIBLE] Thank God [INAUDIBLE] they're dishonest.

HALDEMAN:

The Joint Chiefs—think of that story. That's like [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

No, I think I now agree with the suggestion that he put out the whole story of the fleet that run through the Straits of Malacca up into the Bay of Bengal.

EHRLICHMAN:

This guy is [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] Why do you ask?

MITCHELL:

Because the yeoman served in India, he married his wife in India

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

NIXON:

Oh, he's the pro-Indian? Well, then he did it.

EHRLICHMAN:

You know something as I stand here—

MITCHELL:

Well, in addition to that, his association with Jack Anderson. Uh, Anderson would obviously know what he was doing, and how he was working, and just pushed things until he got it.

EHRLICHMAN:

Let me ask this first: Is Anderson guilty of anything?

MITCHELL:

Yes.

NIXON:

What?

MITCHELL:

He's guilty of possession of these documents.

NIXON:

Can we really prosecute, let's say, the person out of the government?

MITCHELL:

You can prosecute 'em under the publication. But for the possession of them, I don't even know if we need to buy that. But if you start to open up—

UNKNOWN:

This guy—

MITCHELL:

But, if you start opening up on Anderson—assuming you did make a case, turned this guy, give him immunity and so forth—then Lord knows where this is going to lead to.

NIXON:

Yes.

MITCHELL:

Because he's going to come out with a story, "Well, I gave it," this business with Admiral Welander, "and he's had all of this," and the Joint Chiefs and all the rest of it.

NIXON:

Well, it blows the Joint Chiefs right out of the Pentagon through the roof of the Pentagon. Right?

EHRLICHMAN:

Right, it ruptures your relationship

MITCHELL:

And there's some —

EHRLICHMAN:

so some breaking news—

NIXON:

about this operation. I am sure Haig must have known about this operation.

EHRLICHMAN:

I'm not sure if Haig was in on the operation.

NIXON:

It seems unlikely he wouldn't, he wouldn't have known.

EHRLICHMAN:

I'm not sure of that. You see, Haig took this guy to Vietnam with him, consulted with him, he reposed confidence in him. And I think that it could be Haig. But I suspect that the stakes—this whole practice, probably keep the back channel to say. "We've got caught." And he thinks "I've got caught." That would be my thinking on Haig. But I don't know that.

NIXON:

Probably right, yeah.

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE]. But I just don't know that. I'm just surmising, there is first of all, Haig's dream, you know— [INAUDIBLE].

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE]

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

He was a Mormon, you know, and so was Jack Anderson. [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] Anderson's parents [INAUDIBLE]

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

HALDEMAN:

Somebody should be taken out.

NIXON:

Better job of screening people. I think

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

EHRLICHMAN:

—I mean, in trying to decide [INAUDIBLE] decide how you, how you see your name on the list under Tom Moorer. What are you going to do about this man? I mean . . .

MITCHELL:

You'll have to send him off to someplace.

NIXON:

The Yeoman?

MITCHELL:

Yup.

NIXON:

What about the [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

You can't, without breaking this thing up. Cause when the pressure gets on him, it's going to go right up through the channels.

EHRLICHMAN:

I've lost more sleep agonizing on what to do with this guy. And I have finally come to the conclusion that you can't touch him.

NIXON:

I agree.

EHRLICHMAN:

And uh, but we can't touch him because it hurts the Joint Chiefs.

NIXON:

Exactly, the Joint Chiefs, the military, et cetera as our enemy. We can't tolerate this. And also we can't have foolish, god damned NSC-wide security problem.

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] There's that too.

NIXON:

Right now, we [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

Right now, you've got to get to Henry right about [INAUDIBLE] his eye teeth [INAUDIBLE] He'll do any thing for us. [INAUDIBLE] He's got too many people around him who are bad Democratic apples.

NIXON:

You know Bob, Henry's always said he [INAUDIBLE] so forth and so on—

EHRLICHMAN:

They do some things [INAUDIBLE]

HALDEMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] they never dreamed about [INAUDIBLE] propaganda [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Yeah, but this, but the secret is well accomplished to this young son-of-a-bitch. They had to all come from him! I don't mean just this [INAUDIBLE] —but I mean previous

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] David is running back now all of these columns for the last thirteen months to determine whether or not there's any relationship. And that process is still going on. [INAUDIBLE]

HALDEMAN:

the yeoman's been there for thirteen months?

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes.

HALDEMAN:

Where was he, wasn't he here before that?

EHRLICHMAN:

No, he's

HALDEMAN:

Is he the new guy that Robinson brought in?

EHRLICHMAN:

Apparently

MITCHELL:

Isn't that when he came back from India?

EHRLICHMAN:

I don't know the relationship there. It wasn't long after he came back. But, uh that's where he switched [INAUDIBLE] over to, over to an embassy or what the hell to do with him.

MITCHELL:

What, what transfer did he put in for?

EHRLICHMAN:

He just said undetermined.

MITCHELL:

Undetermined.

[NATIONAL SECURITY DELETION 1000 Hz TONE]

EHRLICHMAN:

Now, I don't know what to do with this bird. [PAUSE] But, uh, my inclination is to direct them that you not do anything with a punitive nature to it, for fear he'll bobble the ball.

NIXON:

I agree. Ah my thinking is this: I think you've got to uh, uh [PAUSE] uh, find proof [INAUDIBLE] have Admiral Moorer call on him and tell him [INAUDIBLE] The second thing was this: I don't understand, either, that uh—you said there was some curiousness as to how even Haig was—is not involved in this. I mean,

EHRLICHMAN:

I understand.

NIXON:

I don't, I don't think the leaks are—

EHRLICHMAN:

I understand.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] or the rest of the stuff with the Joint Chiefs.

HALDEMAN:

I don't know how he knew that.

MITCHELL:

I don't know how you'd ever find out. Cause Haig had had most of the information they know. But wouldn't it, wouldn't it, uh—

NIXON:

John

MITCHELL:

—relate to that.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] I understand [INAUDIBLE] and so forth over at the Joint Chiefs. However, but taking stuff out of Henry's briefcase! I'm sure Haig would never approve of that.

EHRLICHMAN:

I agree.

MITCHELL:

I would agree with that.

HALDEMAN:

You said he took stuff out of Haig's briefcase, right

EHRLICHMAN:

Out of Haig's briefcase. In fact there's a whole list of these people that uh, that have been

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] Now these are all NSC people?

UNKNOWN:

Some of them may have come from State.

EHRLICHMAN:

I'm wondering if he is related to other people on the NSC staff.

NIXON:

Who, Sonnenfeldt?

EHRLICHMAN:

He says he has stolen from Kissinger, Kissinger's secretaries, Al Haig, John Negroponte, Dick Smyser, Colonel Kennedy, Jack Darcy, Edward Murphy [INAUDIBLE]

HALDEMAN:

Smyser and Kennedy are the guys that are always at the helm [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Oh, yeah

HALDEMAN:

Always [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Uh, well I owe you [INAUDIBLE] not that you didn't do a good job

EHRLICHMAN:

Well David is guy that gets credit for doing this.

NIXON:

Secondly, I think that, uh, uh strategy you suggested is the one that I would pursue.

MITCHELL:

What about Laird?

EHRLICHMAN:

Now Laird knows about the yeoman. He, uh, called me and said that he knew that something very interesting was going on. He was going to see if [INAUDIBLE] and he promised that uh any cooperation we report to the Pentagon we would have [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Laird is another of these bunch that's no good. You know that General Pursley, or whatever?

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes.

NIXON:

General Pursley, uh. He's a Laird friend, so he's not loyal. [COUGHS] You'd think he could follow up once without thinking of it. The stupid ba—he's got everything to do for the Joint Chiefs [INAUDIBLE]. But it's, but, but, I find it if [INAUDIBLE] before I'd talk to Anderson [INAUDIBLE]. and we don't know. We don't know.

HALDEMAN:

We certainly have Anderson.

NIXON:

Do you think [INAUDIBLE]?

MITCHELL:

Had to be familiar.

EHRLICHMAN:

Now, I don't know about Don Hughes' situation. But Don's the only guy to whom I can turn to find out how much Haig really knows. He's in a position to finding out that kind of stuff.

NIXON:

Don's situation is so separate, you know, In my view, so separate [INAUDIBLE] all that sort of thing.

HALDEMAN:

And he does have some.

NIXON:

He does not.

HALDEMAN:

He does, sir.

EHRLICHMAN:

Then, then—

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

—you'd have to, you'd have to belong to the club to find who's—

EHRLICHMAN:

You'd have to ride quietly [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] follow through Bob. [INAUDIBLE].

[NATIONAL SECURITY DELETION 1000 Hz TONE]

MITCHELL:

Now Zumwalt was involved in this.

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

NIXON:

Zumwalt

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

HALDEMAN:

That other, that other [INAUDIBLE] captain [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

I'll hazard that this was basically a Navy operation

NIXON:

Yes

EHRLICHMAN:

Navy, I mean you got an Admiral, you got a yeoman, you've got Moorer, Zumwalt

NIXON:

Zumwalt [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

Zumwalt was the recipient of some documents [INAUDIBLE].

NIXON:

I think I'd like to be present when you talk to Moorer. [PAUSE]. You don't agree?

MITCHELL:

No. Because this will be a confrontation that I don't think you need.

NIXON:

Well, all right. But I want to confront it tough as hell! You know what I mean? [INAUDIBLE] you don't do that sort of thing. Particularly, particularly when Moorer is involved of he is [INAUDIBLE] bearer of some of the documents [INAUDIBLE] from Henry Kissinger's briefcase

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

HALDEMAN:

They said it was—

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

Friendship.

NIXON:

That, that, that, that, that, that would make you fall [INAUDIBLE]. He stole out of a briefcase. Now, there would be cause. See my point?

MITCHELL:

I do. But, I would—

NIXON:

Implicates the Joint Chiefs. You see, there's#&151;the minute the Join Chiefs [PAUSE] were aware of that, then they should [INAUDIBLE].

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] —legal obligation to say [INAUDIBLE] anything. And the minute they saw that he was getting stuff from Kissiger's briefcase, then they should have said, "Now we just can't play that kind of game."

NIXON:

Well for Christ's sakes!

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

HALDEMAN:

Look, if I get something out of your briefcase

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALKS]

EHRLICHMAN:

Well Bob, it doesn't happen that way of course. [INAUDIBLE] He says, "He stated that this practice began with Admiral Robinson, who instructed him to 'keep his eyes open.' The subject construed this to mean that he should furnish Admiral Robinson whatever information might be an advantage to support the liaison's office and the Admiral."

MITCHELL:

To keep his eyes open at the EOB and this liaison office.

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes sir. "He continued this practice under the supervision of Admiral Welander. He stated that Admiral Welander never directed or instructed him to take the documents, but he has accepted them whenever they were provided by the subject."

HALDEMAN:

Since he was asked to do that by the first— [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

He has stolen classified material.

NIXON:

Now, wait a minute. Now, wait a minute. [PAUSE] I'm suggesting that it was Moorer who must take responsibility for this Anderson's column. It's possible, right?

EHRLICHMAN:

[PAUSE] No, because he knew that if they had all that, we might—

NIXON:

Oh, I think that, that they're all—

HALDEMAN:

It's a poor substitute for [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

He says that he has only taken stuff home—how would that come out? [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] one time.

MITCHELL:

That came out all right on the polygraph? [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

I think you have to assume that if he had any stuff, he doesn't possess it now—because he's smart enough to know that with an interrogation going on and all sorts—

MITCHELL:

He's got it up there.

EHRLICHMAN:

He's undoubtedly got an enormous amount of stuff in his mind.

NIXON:

He's that smart?

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes, he's very bright and very precise, and uh—

MITCHELL:

He handled the interrogation, from what I hear—I haven't read the transcript. But he handled it just the way a profe—con-man would have.

EHRLICHMAN:

Yeah, yeah.

MITCHELL:

Took 'em right to the, right to the point, very cool. "Well, this is all circumstantial, no other [INAUDIBLE]"

EHRLICHMAN:

"I'm here to answer any questions you gentleman have." Until he recognized where we're going, and cried. Of course, he'd been under interrogation for three days straight.

MITCHELL:

Well, he's had a great little ballgame and [INAUDIBLE] whether he's involved any other people in this.

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes and he realizes how he's opened up the door to this whole Joint Chiefs thing. Uh, Admiral Welander was asked about this. He refuses to respond to the interrogator's questions, saying that he had a personal and confidential relationship with Henry Kissinger and Al Haig, including responding to those kinds of questions.

NIXON:

The other thing that has to be reckoned with, very hard—you've got to get rid of the [INAUDIBLE] of Kissinger and Haig: They must be told that I know the whole thing. They must be told that on any subject don't let them get off the hook, either of them,

MITCHELL:

Or?

NIXON:

God, let them think, let them think, that the son-of-a-bitch broke down and told all the other stuff, too. Let them, let them—

EHRLICHMAN:

You mean not just with India and Pakistan?

NIXON:

Correct! And that the leaks have led them to blaming the wrong people. I don't want any crying over this incident and I don't ever want it raised in a meeting with either one of 'em. Do you understand?

MITCHELL:

And John'll get a candidate for this security officer in the NSC.

EHRLICHMAN:

No. No. Chuck Traynor, who set up our security operation in Key Biscayne. He's a colonel in the Air Force.

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

[NATIONAL SECURITY DELETION 1000 Hz TONE]

EHRLICHMAN:

And if [INAUDIBLE] had any qualms about turning Pentagon inside out, he'd have told me right then. He went to work, and he got the goods on this guy, [INAUDIBLE].

MITCHELL:

Quick return.

EHRLICHMAN:

And uh we got rid of him and he has ran roughshod over there and uh [INAUDIBLE] assistant secretary, so I never had to—

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] no bother to the people out here?

EHRLICHMAN:

Well, he was, he was running after his [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Huh?

EHRLICHMAN:

It's easy to arrive over at Dulles on an airplane.

NIXON:

Oh, I didn't know he was coming up. [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

Well just [INAUDIBLE]

UNKNOWN:

It's a little hanky-panky—

[LAUGHS]

EHRLICHMAN:

But, uh, uh, I'd be [INAUDIBLE] kid that's [INAUDIBLE] ours. He's a colonel in the Air Force. But he's a, he's a security specialist.

NIXON:

And is he [INAUDIBLE] secure?

EHRLICHMAN:

Overall. Yeah. he is a black, he is our—

[NATIONAL SECURITY DELETION 1000 Hz TONE]

HALDEMAN:

Traynor is an Air Force Officer who was here in the White House when we came in as, as the President's man to look at all the intelligence overall to see who was screwing whom.

MITCHELL:

Wasn't he certified to by Don Hughes?

EHRLICHMAN:

Yes, he's fine for me.

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] Yeah, if he couldn't—

EHRLICHMAN:

He's not here at all, he's not here.

NIXON:

Uh—I don't know. I'm not worried that if it got to Haig, Haig would tell Henry. But who will know? Is Haig wiretapped?

HALDEMAN:

Why not?

MITCHELL:

It's not going to hurt anyone at all.

EHRLICHMAN:

See if we can put a tap and surveillance on the yeoman.

MITCHELL:

We can do that.

NIXON:

I would do that, But I would, uh—

MITCHELL:

Is he confined to his, to his—

EHRLICHMAN:

No

MITCHELL:

—home? He's not?

EHRLICHMAN:

No

MITCHELL:

He does that and his military career [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

He's brilliant about finding out [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Move him far away—

HALDEMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] But if he's smart enough to tap, then he, he would know that he'd be tapped, and he would go use a phone, he would leave his phone off and [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE] While he talks to Mr. Simpson [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

And you may have incoming calls to indicate who's interested in solving the problem.

NIXON:

Understand, you might get something you never know if the guys smart, his wife may be dumb enough to make a call.

HALDEMAN:

I suspect that's true.

NIXON:

— and you'll learn a few things, I've got a feeling, that uhm, we need to find out how to so—how to get this worked on. And that will involve him. I want to see what bubbles up at the NSC over here in a while [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

Well, I'd, I'd, I'd, well, I'd—you don't necessarily think that it's [INAUDIBLE] you know. But I think that Welander and Robinson are the ones that ought to have action taken against them, so that—

NIXON:

Right.

MITCHELL:

so that the word gets out and that Moorer would be charged with doing this.

NIXON:

Right.

EHRLICHMAN:

If that remains to be done, then why don't you do that?

MITCHELL:

Well, the minute you do that, the ballgame's over,

NIXON:

Yeah.

MITCHELL:

—and then you finally go to the security of the NSC, and that's the end of it.

[PAUSE]

HALDEMAN:

Well, see, but—

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

NIXON:

I mean, uh, and particularly Henry. Henry is, uh, is not a good security risk.

MITCHELL:

He's not a good security risk the way he runs that office.

EHRLICHMAN:

Well, there are all kinds of odd bounces to this thing now. There's a relief man who cleans the Chief's place. They interrogated him and asked four or five questions. And one of the questions they asked him was whether or not he knew Jack Anderson. "No." "Do you know anyone who does know Jack Anderson?" "No." So, that was the end of that. He came back over here, he went in to Admiral Welander, and said "Sir, I think its my duty to report to you that the yeoman knows Jack Anderson."

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

This was his loyalty-to-the-service argument. You can expect that from some of 'em that are close to these officers—

NIXON:

So do you [INAUDIBLE] officers—

HALDEMAN:

I'd have a better chance of that, undoubtedly—

NIXON:

Laird's here?

EHRLICHMAN:

Well, he, he called, he's [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

Well, you know, uh—

NIXON:

Even if he can't [INAUDIBLE] twenty-four hours, right?

MITCHELL:

Well, not until you're ready to move against Welander and whoever else. I think that's the, the problem, because the important thing, in my way of thinking, is to stop this Joint Chiefs of Staff operation—

NIXON:

Sure.

MITCHELL:

—and to buck up the security over here.

NIXON:

Right.

MITCHELL:

And if, if I had to order Welander out to Kokomo or wherever it is—What you do with Robinson, I don't know—then they have taken recognition of this, and they in effect are admitting—

NIXON:

Right.

MITCHELL:

—to this operation.

NIXON:

I tell you what they do; it could air on Christmas.

MITCHELL:

That's great. I'll be out at the Fiesta Bowl in Phoenix.

NIXON:

Well, we'll do it before we have to [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

No, I, I, I'm inclined to think that there may be a—

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] our critics now [INAUDIBLE] transfer him, let the full package go Christmas, and then bang! [INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

UNKNOWN:

Definitively, but this is a fellow who'll have to be packaged off to— [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Not, not the yeoman, but the admiral we're replacing. [INAUDIBLE] Does he know, does he know we're after him?

EHRLICHMAN:

He knows the interrogations have been going on and he knows that this guy's been zeroed in on. He knows, we know what he thought. Oh sure!, I mean Welander was asked about it, you see. "Do you know that this man has been—it is true that he handed over documents to you?" And he says, "I have a confidential relationship with Haig and Kissinger."

MITCHELL:

That's, that's where he bugged it out.

NIXON:

Well, the facts of the case, now that's—we just knock that out of the ballpark, you know, to stop that relationship of Haig and Kissinger—

MITCHELL:

Well, they, Robinson and Welander—is that his name? These are the two culprits involved.

NIXON:

Sure.

MITCHELL:

When you go back to the way the scenario reads, where this yeoman was told to keep his eyes open and get whatever he could. They are the ones responsible for this.

NIXON:

Yup.

MITCHELL:

And the question is—two questions. There's number one: Where do you put Laird in this? Do you consult with Laird, and tell him what you're going to do,

NIXON:

No.

MITCHELL:

—Or how do you handle Laird? Or do you just go to Moorer on your behalf?

NIXON:

Go to Moorer on my behalf. The idea is for a direct line to Moorer. Don't tell Laird. Laird is liable to screw around and then one way it will blow. Now you go right directly with that. And, uh, I would consult Henry, to see what we do with him and that's all. If he handled himself so badly, then about what should be done with him.

MITCHELL:

Now what do you want done with Welander?

NIXON:

Huh?

MITCHELL:

What do you want done with Welander—other than kick him out of the EOB?

NIXON:

You transfer him.

MITCHELL:

You want to transfer him out?

NIXON:

Can him. Get him the hell out of here.

MITCHELL:

I agree. This is an

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

CLICK THE MICROPHONE and hear an audio excerpt where Mitchell equates the stealing of documents from Kissinger's and Haig's briefcases to robbing the President's desk. :32.

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] he stole . . . so indiscreetly. The main thing is that, the main thing is that, it's to me that reason that [POUNDING OF DESK WITH EACH WORD] He—had—to—know—that he was getting stuff from Kissinger's and Haig's briefcase. That—is—wrong! Understand? I'm just saying that's wrong. Do you agree?

MITCHELL:

No question about it, that the whole concept of having this yeoman get into this affair and start to get this stuff into the Joint Chiefs of Staff is just like coming in and robbing your desk.

NIXON:

Yes it is.

HALDEMAN:

The thing that disgusts me about this is, if they'll do that—

NIXON:

Yeah.

HALDEMAN:

—What else are they doing?

EHRLICHMAN:

You know, military drivers, military gals, military everything around here.

NIXON:

Yup, yup, yup, yup.

HALDEMAN:

Christ. We've all used this office. [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

If you, if you called one of these mess boys into your office [INAUDIBLE] here in the White House mess [INAUDIBLE]

HALDEMAN:

If you go back to the Johnson days they were

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

EHRLICHMAN:

But uh, it's just, uh—

NIXON:

[INAUDIBLE] problems in the whole apparatus [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

When do you want me to start on Kissinger?

NIXON:

January [PAUSE] or February.

MITCHELL:

Doesn't that conflict with—

NIXON:

And let Haig [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

I think it might be interesting to see what [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Yeah, I want to see [INAUDIBLE]

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

What, Let me, let me—

CLICK THE MICROPHONE and hear an audio excerpt where Nixon states that this is "a federal offense of the highest order." :14

NIXON:

Use your discretion: uh, there is a federal offense of the highest order here. And, uh you have reported it to the President. The President says he can't discuss it. And the Attorney General is handling it. Period. Don't worry.

MITCHELL:

Mr. President, suppose I interrogate Welander on this thing?

NIXON:

What's that?

MITCHELL:

Suppose I've an interrogation of Welander on this thing?

NIXON:

Why?

EHRLICHMAN:

I think, I don't think that's indicated.

HALDEMAN:

What about telling Henry that Welander refused to co-operate on the grounds of his personal relationship with Henry and that Henry is to call Welander and dissolve that relationship [INAUDIBLE] free Welander to testify.

MITCHELL:

That's it exactly

NIXON:

Why don't you tell Henry that

HALDEMAN:

[INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

Tell Henry if he gets that much, it'll wreck 'em.

NIXON:

Now—

MITCHELL:

Yeah. And then . . .

HALDEMAN:

'Cause they know you're investigating, so just say there's a block on the investigation [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

I don't want Henry to know, though that, that, that this yeoman has put it on to Anderson yet. Either of them. Don't you agree with me?

HALDEMAN:

Yeah, I just think [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

I am sure Haig has told Henry that much.

NIXON:

Does Haig know all this?

EHRLICHMAN:

Hold on— that's not my point. Al Haig is not the point. [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

Does Henry know he stole from his briefcase?

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

John, how about—since we don't know what the hell that security officer over there is doing, other than excising the records. Why not have Martin come over and work with—interrogate uh, Welander?

EHRLICHMAN:

Well, [INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

Start off good. So when you get through with him, go back to the—

EHRLICHMAN:

No, no—

MITCHELL:

—go back to the yeoman?

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE]

MITCHELL:

Not good to have it wait until the [INAUDIBLE]

EHRLICHMAN:

I understand. I thought I'd given up all the [INAUDIBLE] but you should have seen him [INAUDIBLE] as a matter of fact [INAUDIBLE] about the Hiss case. He said [INAUDIBLE] read somewhere that Hiss always cites his recollection in his answers. So this guy is exactly the same—

NIXON:

"To the best of my recollection, I can't recall. To the best of my recollection, I do not remember. To the best of my recollection I do not remember."

MITCHELL:

[INAUDIBLE] to critical answers.

EHRLICHMAN:

[INAUDIBLE] He was very precise about the things that he didn't have. That he went certain places, and did certain things, certain circumstances. This guy was trained. He can tell you exactly the sequence in which he Xeroxed things, he moved to this room, to that room, and so on. He could take you on a tour on an hour-by-hour-by-hour [INAUDIBLE]. And he has total recall.

MITCHELL:

I think this Welander thing is good because it is going to get right into the middle of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

EHRLICHMAN:

Because you can't have any [INAUDIBLE] if you don't [INAUDIBLE] and bury this admiral? [INAUDIBLE] But, I think what we ought to do here is have Henry call Welander [INAUDIBLE]—

NIXON:

Yeah.

EHRLICHMAN:

Do that [INAUDIBLE] in which he'll say, "There's nothing in our relationship that precludes you from answering any questions that are put to you." [INAUDIBLE]

NIXON:

That's right [INAUDIBLE] Go out there, tell Henry to call the police. [INAUDIBLE] —inside information. And if I order it that he shall not talk to it—I don't want Henry to raise this subject with me here—or he's out. And get a handle on Moorer.

MITCHELL:

Well, let's—let's let this sit a while, as you suggest,

NIXON:

Yeah.

MITCHELL:

—and then let's take him on.

EHRLICHMAN:

I'll get Welander tomorrow.

NIXON:

Good [INAUDIBLE] I wish I could sit in on it myself

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK]

MITCHELL:

Merry Christmas.

[INAUDIBLE CROSSTALK TO END]